13 replies to this topic

[cheesboi98]

I don't normally post here--mostly because I like to think I can troubleshoot fairly well--but when I do, I've already done some research that might help me in solving my problem.

So here it is.

I am the proud owner of an 8 year old machine. It has served me very well for what it is, and the length of time I've had it. I'm actually in the process of building a whole new system. Until that system is built, however, I want to get the most out of my current system.

My system is here. When I started doing my research, I was actually fairly surprised that they'd keep it online. Surprised, but very grateful and thankful. Either way, it's old, and nearly obsolete.

Talking with one of my neighbors--who actually worked for HP or some other PC company as a technician for the longest time--I received a PCI graphics card, of which I've actually found a picture of. It's an ATI Radeon 7000, first introduced in 2001.

Now, yes, my computer is newer than this card. But, in looking for nearly the same thing on Newegg.com, I found a rather cheap alternative. It's a Zotac GeForce GT 430, here.

Obviously, my onboard graphics are probably the lowest performer out of all three chipsets. I'm only really interested in running the two monitors that I have now. Either way, my board is here. You can see the number of PCI and PCIe 1.0 x16 slots it has; 3 and 1 respectively.

I've got an obsolete card in one of the PCI slots, and WiFi card in another. The Radeon 7000 is PCI, but doesn't like my board for some reason, while the GT 430 is also PCI.

My question is this, and I've asked Google and got mixed results: Which has the most power, and will be compatible with my board? Should I purchase the $70 USD card, or wait to build the whole new system?

I've asked Google, but perhaps crowdsourcing will work better. If you don't know anything about what's going on here, please don't spam it up. If you've got links, I'd appreciate it.

Also, why the heck won't this Radeon 7000 work? I disabled the onboard graphics and seated the card, powered on. It gave me one long beep, then three short beeps. Usually that's if somethings not seated correctly.

If you'll note, on the Radeon 7000, there's a break in the PCI connection. That's how it's manufactured.

I'm all for waiting until I can build my new system, but it would be nice to have two working computers that are at the top of their respective games for what's already inside.

Let me know what you think, if you have any questions, or simply want to add in "You're a crazy person, stop it now" please do so down below. I'll check this thread back once every few hours. +1 for you.

[feeddagoat]

socket 939 is still usable. My main desktop is am2+ 6000 x2 which isn't much faster than the 4200+ your mobo can take and it still plays modern games fairly well. According to the first link you have a PCI-E (PCI express) x16 slot. This is the important part for modern GPU's. All modern GPU's use this slot. PCI is a long slot where as PCI-E is slightly different. Link below should show the difference

http://technozeus.fi..._pcie_slots.jpg

The biggest concern I would have is the PSU. Capacitor ageing has the effect of reducing reliability especially at higher loads. The GT430 shouldnt have any extra power requirement other than what the PCI-E lane supplies anything bigger tho then you will need to check for connectors on your PSU. I would recommend against molex connectors being converted for GPU use as they're usually connected to a power rail that isn't designed for large power draws. It should be ok but I would look at a replacement to be safe. Either way it isn't essential but be weary of the possibility.

If you want performance benchmarks
http://www.tomshardw...ew-32442-7.html
I would google reviews of 420 but comparisons with it and your old card will be none existant I imagine. Best thing to do is find what games your want to play (minecraft has low requirements, aim for higher than intels HD3000) and find a price point your happy enough to pay that can manage those games. I would pay the few pennies extra for the larger jump in performance again price and PSU dependant.

[cheesboi98]

feeddagoat, on 09 July 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

... relevant information that I do appreciate ...

If you want performance benchmarks
http://www.tomshardw...ew-32442-7.html
I would google reviews of 420 but comparisons with it and your old card will be none existant I imagine. Best thing to do is find what games your want to play (minecraft has low requirements, aim for higher than intels HD3000) and find a price point your happy enough to pay that can manage those games. I would pay the few pennies extra for the larger jump in performance again price and PSU dependant.

If you'd look here, you'll see exactly what my board has.
Also, I can't tell what my PC has for a power supply while it's not in front of me. I'll update this post with the relevant information later on.

Thank you for your feedback and suggestions. I found that the Radeon 7000 is actually lower on the hierarchy than the onboard Geforce 6150 LE. Thanks for that. Didn't look for the 430 though.

[feeddagoat]

lol sorry for the waffle.

I've seen that before from HP especially. They added a geforce 6200 to my mates pc many moons ago which was about the same as onboard. Looking for more information I found, your motherboard is worth £30-£60 second hand =O BTW don't forget to look at some computer tech sites. After 25 post most have members markets where you can pick up some bargins.

[cheesboi98]

feeddagoat, on 09 July 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

lol sorry for the waffle.

I've seen that before from HP especially. They added a geforce 6200 to my mates pc many moons ago which was about the same as onboard.

Not sure what you're saying here. Oo The onboard graphics are better than what I just got completely free from my neighbor. He's kind of like the old man on the mountain with lots of knowledge, if only you were to ask. He's got loads of computer bits, and more in a storage container. Guy's awesome.

Anywho. At this point, I'd rather shell out the $70USD to Newegg and get the NVIDIA Zotac card. Only worry now is what PSU I have.

[Nomsaucer]

I would tell you to wait until you build a completely new system. That 70 dollars could let you get a better graphics card then, and you will be glad you waited.

[cheesboi98]

Nomsaucer, on 09 July 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

I would tell you to wait until you build a completely new system. That 70 dollars could let you get a better graphics card then, and you will be glad you waited.

This is true. By November--when I'd really like to buy everything by--there may be new technologies out there, and AMD might have released motherboards that support PCI express 3.0, and perhaps even their >8 core processors. The only reason I'm even buying Intel is because their boards support the new architecture. Then again, a compatriot of mine stated that you can still seat the 3.0 Gpus in boards that have 2.0 slots, it'll just run slower. If anyone can corroborate his account, let me know here or via PM. If that be the case, I could probably start building an AMD system. Although, if I were to build AMD, I'd have to sacrifice the speed of the 3.0 PCIe slot. And the build I'm going for is supposed to be complete overkill omg why do you need that much power??, simply because all I'd want to do for the next 3 years is buy upgrades.

Either way, I'd want to buy by November. It'll be a nice birthday present as well.

[feeddagoat]

Why? Gpu can be carried over as can other parts like psu. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water or spend more than what's needed too soon.

[effdeekaa]

"You're a crazy person, stop it now"

No, my opinion I stated by liking Nomsaucer's post.

[cheesboi98]

feeddagoat, on 09 July 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Why? Gpu can be carried over as can other parts like psu. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water or spend more than what's needed too soon.

That's why I'm looking into upgrading things. My psu is only 250w, so that's out of the question, buying any new GPU right away. Was thinking I could just purchase the Zotac card and it'd be an immediate upgrade.

My system is here, by the by. Ignore the information about the 'Hardware Choices' and you've got my computer. Turns out HP still keeps support documents on hand.

Anyways. I'm putting together a new system as it stands now, and am going to keep this current system and upgrade it perhance. There are some good, cheap upgrades that'll keep this system relevant, like a new power supply and GPU. It's a solid system and has served me well for a number of years. I'm actually going to be building two systems, eventually. I'm fairly awesome at matching up letters and words, so I've been putting PC's together on newegg for years now.

[Nomsaucer]

Don't worry about PCIE 3.0 or 2.0. Most cards today don't even use half the bandwidth of 2.0. Go ahead and get it if you want to be prepared though, graphics card are improving fast.

[cheesboi98]

Nomsaucer, on 10 July 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

Don't worry about PCIE 3.0 or 2.0. Most cards today don't even use half the bandwidth of 2.0. Go ahead and get it if you want to be prepared though, graphics card are improving fast.

If they're improving fast, what's the point of buying now? The point of buying the 'fastest PCI card available' would be backwards compatibility with older machines, and a dedicated PhysX card. Not that that's important.

The only thing that caught me off guard was the difference between PCIe 3.0, 2.0, and 1.0. There's no real difference in the way the cards interface with the motherboard. It's all PCIe. It all depends on the slot it's going into on the motherboard. Whether you've got a PCIe 3.0, 2.0, or 1.0 card, it'll only run as fast as the slot that card is going into. So, assuming it'd fit in my case and the motherboard recognizes it, I could theoretically buy an NVIDIA GTX 690 PCIe x16 3.0 GPU, and it would run. Only catch is that it'd run at the speed of the PCIe slot on my motherboard.

I didn't actually know that until very recently. That being said, I'm not going to go out and buy a GTX 690, or even consider it. With the cheapest 690 on Newegg at $999.99 USD, I could put together a whole new AMD system. I actually did so yesterday.

[Nomsaucer]

What I meant is that you wont need a 3.0 slot now, (it provides 4x the bandwidth to any card a sane person would get), so I wouldn't consider it a major factor in the board you get, unless you plan on using it for another 8 years. In that case you probably should go for it, because cards 8 years from now might use up the bandwidth.

[cheesboi98]

Nomsaucer, on 11 July 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

What I meant is that you wont need a 3.0 slot now, (it provides 4x the bandwidth to any card a sane person would get), so I wouldn't consider it a major factor in the board you get, unless you plan on using it for another 8 years. In that case you probably should go for it, because cards 8 years from now might use up the bandwidth.

The way cards are progressing now, I think we'll hit the full capability of the 3.0 slot and interface sooner than that. But the point of building a bleeding edge super overkill omg why do you need that much power PC right now is so that you don't have to do anything but upgrade for the next few years. I'm actively building and rebuilding PC's on Newegg to hit the sweet spot between price and performance. I do this daily, because it's actually fun for me, and is good exercise for my mind. Tomorrow I'm getting a 420w PSU from my friend, gratis, and I'm taking a look at another 1000w psu from another work friend. Sadly, the 420 is not enough power for a higher-end graphics card, but it is free. The 1000w is for my UberBuild coming up in November. That'll be the one that's future-proof.

I'm loving the feedback and talk here. Keep it coming. Maybe will restructure this into a quiet discussion thread.